As time has gone by, the quality of the leadership has deteriorated. It has become a 1 million plus army and it does not has the culture to make its own weapons and fight. The kargil War showed the will of the young Indian soldiers to fight and win a war, the war has exposed to the paralysis of the Indian Army (IA) leadership. The Army General had to be criticised to come back from his arms shopping trip. Estimated 700,000 Indian Army personnel deployed in mountainous Kashmir and they did not have high altitude clothing.
Indian Army leadership has taken up complaining about anything and anything around it when it comes to indigenisation of critical arms and equipment. These equipment happens to be high value and puts considerable strain on foreign exchange. This equipments also represent lucrative arms market where abnormal influences exist.
The successive weak governments which came after the death of Indira Gandhi, till the dynamic leadership of PV Narasimha Rao, had neglected the Indian Defence forces and it has taken the toll on the equipment needs of Armed forces in general. The Cinderella sister, the Indian Navy (IN), the best of the what Indian Armed forces has, took this opportunity to develop Indian designs and build Indian warship with as much indigenous content possible. Then came the Soviet Union collapse and we saw IN scrambling to build indigenous and ingenious capacities to keep their Soviet ship content afloat. In fact the IN design house was so ambitious that it wanted to build an aircraft carrier, but, not backed up by the weak governments.
On the contrary, the IA made a mess of the indigenous projects. Indian Army has a huge engineering manpower which did no innovation and behave like glorified mechanics. Today, when IN flaunts its homegrown ships, IA likes to parade its imported weaponry to the world around.
The way forward
There is no point flogging the dead horse, but, its very necessary to understand what is happening now. Things have not improved yet with the army. It still looks around for imported means. The army has made a mess of itself when it comes to indigenous equipment. Take the case of Arjun Tank. The Army is the one which has issued its specs, then changed it often when it comes near deployment, then tested it till it develops mistakes. The Arjun Tank has exceeded its performance,but, the Army has not improved its act. Last we heard is that there was a possibility of sabotage during the Army’s internal trials. Since then the Ministry of Defence has made the Director General Mechanised Forces responsible for overseeing the induction.
Another example is Akash and Trishul projects. It is often cited that even the Navy has rejected Trishul SAM. This is an invalid criticism; the naval version of the Trishul SAM is totally different from the Army and the Air force version. Akash has been demonstrated to perfection to the Indian Air Force (IAF), Trishul has been in limited induction by IAF for familiarisation. But, Army refuses to buy it. Here too the Ministry of Defence has taken a decision to keep the medium range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) with Israel on hold, trying to force the Army to accept the Akash Missile at least.
Then the Eurocopter helicopter deal where the Army was testing a model which it was not going to get. Fortunately the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited stepped in a proved that upgraded Cheetas and Chetaks do a much better job than the imported option. This also brings in the question mark on the Indian Army’s standards of testing.
In the first place the Director General Mechanised Forces and Director General Military operations of the Indian Army are responsible for equipment decision. This is where the buck stops. The government should start seriously auditing these positions for understanding what went wrong with indigenisation programs and effects of the import lobby. Indian Army should create a new position called Director General for indigenisation of equipment, if it already dosen’t exist.
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It is normally end-user who must have the final say on the suitability of the equipment for the use, but, it is necessary to audit the end-user for their judgment. It has become very necessary to involve third party evaluators for the Army purchases considering the past examples.
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For the first time I have come to read a sensible article from a an Indian journalist on the indigenisation of the equipment used by the Indian armed forces. I thank Shree P. Chacko joseph for his patriotic concern on this subject. However, given the unpatriotic self-serving nature of the leaders of the country, nothing can be expected in this affair. The army officers are the biggest culprits because they are the most uneducated ones in the armed forces. The main problem is, they have descended from an orgaisation based on a colonial system of armed forces. After independence, it has not developed any nationalistic fervor. That’s because they worked under successive corrupt govts. without any patriotism at all.
I have just gone through the article,I am suprised that Chacko has zero knowledge on defence affairs.The Tanks and missiles are made by DRDO technology and the end user is the army.The delay arises from bureaucats who and ministers who have no idea on how warfare or wars are conducted.The Cheifs of army staff are highy qualified in the field of armour and tactics as the indian army is currently the only army in the world which is continiously figting a battle in snow desert and jungle,such is teh experienc ethat US Army ,marines and special forces are eager to lear from there.I am not taking sides put if chacko or banarjee just brush up their knowledge they would come to know the no: of IIT graduates and qualified officers in teh army chacko and banerjee would actually fall from theor chair.Poor buggers.
I disagree with Mr. Jaideep.
How can an Army general from Infantry background know about Armor Warfare? Indian Army does not has cross functional fellows. Most of them are selected either based on senority or political appointees.
Like the above commenter, I would also like to know how many IIT’s are in Indian Army. I have not seen that that kind of data anywhere.
Dear Mr Banjara,
Data of officers are not available on the bookshelfs.Its only after interacing with them ona professional level does one know the difference.
As for your comment regarding infantry and armour they are two different arms but please be advised they are continously courses run by army to sychronise both the arms so that they do not falter in combat roles.
It is the sad part of this country that Service chiefs are political appointes coz politicans and bureacats have a permanent far of a military takeover.vis a vis as they look at Russia (putin ex KGB colonel),Pakistan (musharaf0 Myanmar (miltay junta)China (the army is hevaily politised there)
I wonder why the comment by a commentator was deleted. let me summerise what that had in it. Mr jaideep can have better insite on that.
1) The politicians are not expected to know. It is the duty of the Army Chiefs to explain it to them.
2) Just because US Marines train with Indian Army does not mean the Indian Army is the best. US Army and Marines train is more conditions worldwide unlike Indian Army.
Mr Jaideep,
Let us move forward wit the discussion only after you have told us the excat strength of IIT’s in Indian Army. Else your credibility is at stake.
I also think your example of Russia and China is wrong. I don’t think there has been military take overs. Pakistan cannot be made an example here because its a failed democracy.
i must say your knowledge about military is very poor.
I must say your knowlege of the sub continent is negligible.Russia and china have a very heavy miltary presence in them.Kindly do some indepth research on the last 200 years on china and russia.
I am suprised you want to know the exact no of IIT’s its your poor knowledge which cant get you figures.During My Studies inDefence & Staregic studies I interaced with a lot of them who passed out from IIT,BITS and good universities in Pune.
The army chief only proposes his finding a commitee involving Def Sect,Minster of Def Prod and Def Minst take the final call.
Well for your knowledge the US marines are not the only one who train at Varientong (the jungle warfare school)British SAS and Germany SSG 9 are just some of the.Even “sayaret Matkal” (isralei special forces) are said to have had gone training
As far as the US Marines are concerened they had to be hastily redeployed with Regular army personel in Iraq as they failed misreably Urban warfare. In afghanistan its the “Green berets”,Delta force(US army special forces) and the british SAS who are doing the combat
Why are you surprised? It is you who claimed that “I am not taking sides put if chacko or banarjee just brush up their knowledge they would come to know the no: of IIT graduates and qualified officers in teh army chacko and banerjee would actually fall from theor chair.Poor buggers.”
And now when you are asked to give the figures, you are comming out with all vague excuses.
What is the proof that you claim that “My Studies inDefence & Staregic studies ”
Seeing the quality of your replies, I am sure that you are bullshting and trying to cover up for the blunder comment you made at the first place.
As for your comment “The army chief only proposes his finding a commitee involving Def Sect,Minster of Def Prod and Def Minst take the final call.”, its a common knowledge. Howcoem the Def sec and min for def pdn are forcing the army to induct the Arjun Tank? If you claim that politicians bungled it up how come the reverse is happening? Why is Def minister, Def sec and min for def pdn are promoting Arjun Tank to Indian Army?
I think you are avery confused person
First of all China and Russia are not in Sub continent. I think you even don’t know how many countries are there in Indian sub continent.
Can you tell me the percentage of military personnel in Russian and Chinese Parliament or equivalent. I am sure this is also a comment like your knowledge of IIT’s in Indian Army.
You seem to not have understood what i said on US Amrines and Indian Army. You seem to be just bullshiting.
Dear Mr Banjara,
Thanks for your undying support to Chacko and Banerjee,
Seeing the quality of your replies I am covinced that you are better of in the email spam box as u have – zero knowledge of defence.
Its u who are bullshitting and seems like you one of those typical ignorant fools who are better as a doormat.
As far as my studies are conecerned you would be the last illiterate i need to clairify.
And brush up your facts on south block.
Excately
As per your knowledge : Russia and China are in Subcontinent.
You are very knowledgeble. What a whipm you are.
Dear Mr Banjara,
You never understood my comment on the army chief and the marines else the discussion would not have reached this stage
Request you to join the nearest school in your area as your reading skills are negligible and “Panchvi Pass” are better than you.
Dear Mr Banjara,
I am pleased to note that you are language has detoraited.”whimp” my my looks like you should go back to Kinder garten.
I was expecting some figures that you claimed
1) Amout of IIT’s in Indian Army.
2) Amount of Military personnell in Chinese and Russian national administrative structures.
These are yur claims that you know. You run away from backing your statements.
Then you lie about your defence and strategic education, then you claim that Russia and China are in Indian subcontinent, before that US marines train with Indian Army , be fore that Indian Army Chief is very knowledgeble etc.
I suggest going to a proper school for yourself.
Correction on (Then you lie about your…. before that US marines train with Indian Army , …)
before that US marines train with Indian Army hence its the best and only Indian Army trines in varid conditions and ” continiously figting a battle in snow desert and jungle”…
My goodness you still havent understood my comments onn IIT’s i said i knew quite a few who were from IIT and in the army.
I am shocked you have no idea what varientong is North east india is all about else you would have not asked me proof n stuff.Do know anything about it?
And on what basis are you making a claim of the knowledge on Army chiefs?how are you judging their lack of knowledge?
Get you facts right and then enter into a debate.
Read my statements fully looks like you serieusly need some schooling.
No what you wrote was ” am not taking sides put if chacko or banarjee just brush up their knowledge they would come to know the no: of IIT graduates and qualified officers in teh army chacko and banerjee would actually fall from theor chair.Poor buggers.
”
That means you know it. What I asked was “I would actually like to know the numbers.”
You are lying.
Now, what has North East got to do with it?
You haven’t teold me how will a infantry officer turned General know about fighting an Armor battle?
Your claim ” continously courses run by army to sychronise both the arms so that they do not falter in combat roles. ” Back it Up!
I am reading your statements and then replying. Its you who are pulling sentences from no where and then not backing up!
Dear Mr banjara,
Get a life.
You have zero knowledge i repeat zero knowlege.
This site has good info (though some of it is debateable)
I was not aware with these you get “whimp” freebies like Zero Knowledge the great Mr Banjar.
I have anyway called you a liar. So, i guess, I need not react to your nonsensical statements.
All I wanted to Know was, how many IIT’s are there in the Army. And I ram into a full fledged Idiot.
Dear Mr Banjara,
you never understood my statements.Very sad indeed that the discussion had to reach this stage but since you started with accusation its only fitting that a dustbin like you get what you deserve.I must say its better you did not ram you self into T-90.
Grow up Mr Banjara, this is a discussion board not a street fight we are here to discuss not accuse.
This article in Business standard http://www.business-standard.com/common/news_article.php?leftnm=3&subLeft=1&chklogin=N&autono=326234&tab=r
Confirms what Chacko Joseph say’s. Director general mechanised Forces is the culprit. To Quote Col (Retd) Ajai Shukla
“The army’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which must eventually okay the tank, is not impressed but key decision-makers are rallying behind the Arjun.”
Subsequently the Article says
“The head of the Pune-based Southern Command, Lieutenant General N Thamburaj, strongly backs the Arjun. On a visit to the Mahajan Field Firing Ranges in Rajasthan to watch his troops exercising, Lt Gen Thamburaj noticed the Arjun firing nearby.
After walking across, he was invited by the DRDO team to drive and fire the tank. Half an hour later, the general was an Arjun backer; two holes in the target he aimed at testified that a soldier without previous experience operating tanks could get into the Arjun and use it effectively.
Business Standard has evidence of many more such incidents. On June 29, 2006, the commander of the elite 31 Armoured Division, Major General BS Grewal, visited the Mahajan Ranges along with a colleague, Major General Shiv Jaswal. Both drove and fired the Arjun for the first time that day; the two rounds that each fired punched holes through targets almost two kilometres away (see picture).
That same month, 43 Armoured Regiment, which is the first army tank unit equipped with the Arjun, pronounced itself delighted with the Arjun’s firing performance. After firing trials in summer 2006, 43 Armoured Regiment endorsed: “The accuracy and consistency of the Arjun have been proved beyond doubt.”
But the establishment was quick to strike back. Barely three months after that report, the commanding officer of 43 Armoured Regiment, Colonel D Thakur, was confronted by the then Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen DS Shekhawat. Eyewitnesses describe how he was upbraided for “not conducting the trials properly”. But in a career-threatening display of professional integrity, Colonel Thakur’s brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, intervened to insist that the trials had been conducted correctly.
In a series of interviews with the army, including the present Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj, and with the MoD top brass, Business Standard has learned that opposition to the Arjun remains deeply entrenched. This despite the soldiers of 43 Armoured Regiment declaring that if it came to war, they would like to be in an Arjun.
Minister of State for Defence Production, Rao Inderjeet Singh recounts: “I’ve spoken, off the record, to officers who have gone through the trials. Even the crews (from 43 Armoured Regiment)… who have been testing the tank… I forced them to choose between the Russian tanks and the Arjun.
I said, you’ve driven this tank and you’ve driven that tank (the T-90). Now mark them out of ten, which tank is better? And I’ve found that the Arjun tank was given more numbers than the T-90 tank.”
With new confidence, the Arjun’s developer, the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), is arguing strongly for “comparative trials”, in which the Arjun would be pitted head-to-head, in identical conditions, with the army’s T-90 and T-72 tanks. But the DGMF continues to resist any such face-off. “
well pls forgive me as am far younget to al the above ppl in age n experience who hav posted their views but i was like to say that yes 2day i do feel that our army is under siege..after interacting wit loads of special forces operatives n a lot of research,i come to this result that the indian army n special forces(para commandos,nsg units and rangers,marcos) are second to none in sprit and ability but lag behind by miles when it comes to equpitment…DRDO is doing a gr8 job but to b honest not good enough in some areas,starting from our basic equpitments such as combact gear r not even close to what other countries have,the avg combact soldier is stuck with a 5.56 INSAS riffle which might be a bit more accurate and user friendly then the 7.62 slr riffle that it replaces but dose’nt come close to the firepower of a russian make AK 47 riffle which i personally feel to be a gr8 but outdated arm,a very small portion of our special forces have mp5,uzi,M-4 carbines,glock pistols at their disposal and al these arms are tried and tested favourated of special operation units all over the world..and this is just a small example….aircraft and tanks r issues that would take an age to explain,all i say is that the progress is their but its time to pick up the pace and do something!!!i know very well that weapon systems dont win us wars but yes i also know the increase out capacity and effectiveness,i hope i have not hurt anyone’s feelings by this small write up but its just that i care ….thank u